Comments on: on the (lack of) usability of rich text editors in Drupal http://www.darcynorman.net/2009/01/27/on-the-lack-of-usability-of-rich-text-editors-in-drupal/ apparently much happier in person Fri, 20 Nov 2009 14:35:07 -0700 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.6 hourly 1 By: dnorman http://www.darcynorman.net/2009/01/27/on-the-lack-of-usability-of-rich-text-editors-in-drupal/#comment-194416 dnorman Tue, 03 Feb 2009 04:31:36 +0000 http://www.darcynorman.net/?p=2736#comment-194416 non-free is a nonstarter. my budget is $0... non-free is a nonstarter. my budget is $0…

]]> By: Matt http://www.darcynorman.net/2009/01/27/on-the-lack-of-usability-of-rich-text-editors-in-drupal/#comment-194413 Matt Tue, 03 Feb 2009 02:28:19 +0000 http://www.darcynorman.net/?p=2736#comment-194413 We use XStandard internally ... it is proprietary and cost prohibitive to deploy more broadly, but it really works well (AND GENERATES CLEAN XHTML!). You should take a peak sometime. Wish there was a quality OSS alternative. We use XStandard internally … it is proprietary and cost prohibitive to deploy more broadly, but it really works well (AND GENERATES CLEAN XHTML!). You should take a peak sometime. Wish there was a quality OSS alternative.

]]> By: steve http://www.darcynorman.net/2009/01/27/on-the-lack-of-usability-of-rich-text-editors-in-drupal/#comment-194405 steve Sat, 31 Jan 2009 18:33:55 +0000 http://www.darcynorman.net/?p=2736#comment-194405 Thanks Grant! I'm also working on a post that outlines how to do it with Image + WYSIWYG API + TinyMCE. I guess the point is, it <strong>CAN</strong> be done, it's just not very clear how! Thanks Grant! I’m also working on a post that outlines how to do it with Image + WYSIWYG API + TinyMCE. I guess the point is, it CAN be done, it’s just not very clear how!

]]> By: Grant http://www.darcynorman.net/2009/01/27/on-the-lack-of-usability-of-rich-text-editors-in-drupal/#comment-194404 Grant Sat, 31 Jan 2009 18:10:23 +0000 http://www.darcynorman.net/?p=2736#comment-194404 Agreed. That was my original complaint. It's not great. I'm hoping they'll clean it up and do much better. Just wanted to point out it's not quite as bad as it would appear at first glance. Agreed. That was my original complaint. It’s not great. I’m hoping they’ll clean it up and do much better. Just wanted to point out it’s not quite as bad as it would appear at first glance.

]]> By: dnorman http://www.darcynorman.net/2009/01/27/on-the-lack-of-usability-of-rich-text-editors-in-drupal/#comment-194403 dnorman Sat, 31 Jan 2009 18:02:18 +0000 http://www.darcynorman.net/?p=2736#comment-194403 Ah. FCK and IMCE was a combo I hadn't tried. I'll check that out. The screencast is a definite improvement, but still isn't something I'd want to roll out to a large number of students without being able to provide intense technical support. "Browse server" would throw many off. Guaranteed. "The photo's not ON the server. Why would I browse the server?" (yeah, we can tell them to do it anyway...) And the debug log in the lower left panel of the IMCE window will confuse or scare some. It works, but it's hardly clean or streamlined. It works <em>despite</em> the clumsy interface. But the point still remains that site maintainers need to find a formula, and download and configure modules to get it working in a non-geeky way. Ah. FCK and IMCE was a combo I hadn’t tried. I’ll check that out. The screencast is a definite improvement, but still isn’t something I’d want to roll out to a large number of students without being able to provide intense technical support. “Browse server” would throw many off. Guaranteed. “The photo’s not ON the server. Why would I browse the server?” (yeah, we can tell them to do it anyway…) And the debug log in the lower left panel of the IMCE window will confuse or scare some. It works, but it’s hardly clean or streamlined. It works despite the clumsy interface.

But the point still remains that site maintainers need to find a formula, and download and configure modules to get it working in a non-geeky way.

]]> By: Grant http://www.darcynorman.net/2009/01/27/on-the-lack-of-usability-of-rich-text-editors-in-drupal/#comment-194402 Grant Sat, 31 Jan 2009 17:35:03 +0000 http://www.darcynorman.net/?p=2736#comment-194402 I think I'm missing something. I did a short (under 2 minute) screen capture of uploading a photo to a drupal website using FCK and ICME. ( http://eduyukon.net/demo/Drupal%20Demo.htm ) I showed this to a couple of my colleagues to make sure it was not "geeky". They don't think so. If this is the kind of behavior you're looking for, the tutorials mentioned in my earlier comment will help. I think I’m missing something. I did a short (under 2 minute) screen capture of uploading a photo to a drupal website using FCK and ICME. ( http://eduyukon.net/demo/Drupal%20Demo.htm ) I showed this to a couple of my colleagues to make sure it was not “geeky”. They don’t think so. If this is the kind of behavior you’re looking for, the tutorials mentioned in my earlier comment will help.

]]> By: Chris http://www.darcynorman.net/2009/01/27/on-the-lack-of-usability-of-rich-text-editors-in-drupal/#comment-194400 Chris Sat, 31 Jan 2009 02:17:50 +0000 http://www.darcynorman.net/?p=2736#comment-194400 I was tweeting about this a while back when I was digging into a dev site. I really like Drupal and think that it's awesomeness will be revealed to all when they "make it so easy your grandma could write a post with embedded media". WP still leads the charge in that area IMO. I was tweeting about this a while back when I was digging into a dev site. I really like Drupal and think that it’s awesomeness will be revealed to all when they “make it so easy your grandma could write a post with embedded media”. WP still leads the charge in that area IMO.

]]> By: King Chung Huang http://www.darcynorman.net/2009/01/27/on-the-lack-of-usability-of-rich-text-editors-in-drupal/#comment-194398 King Chung Huang Fri, 30 Jan 2009 01:59:18 +0000 http://www.darcynorman.net/?p=2736#comment-194398 I don't think rich-text editor is synonymous with WYSIWYG editor. WordPress' default editor does a decent job of managing and marking up content, and exposes that power via the row of buttons a top of the editing area. That's not WYSIWYG editing. It works when you're in code mode, too. To me, that's a rich-text editor; rich for managing more than just plain text and making that accessible to users. Drupal's rich-text abilities only goes as far as input formats and filters. WYSIWYG editors then get slapped on top with all the appearance, but none of the power, of a something that truly cares beyond a blob of text. "Lipstick on a pig," as the saying goes. I don’t think rich-text editor is synonymous with WYSIWYG editor. WordPress’ default editor does a decent job of managing and marking up content, and exposes that power via the row of buttons a top of the editing area. That’s not WYSIWYG editing. It works when you’re in code mode, too. To me, that’s a rich-text editor; rich for managing more than just plain text and making that accessible to users.

Drupal’s rich-text abilities only goes as far as input formats and filters. WYSIWYG editors then get slapped on top with all the appearance, but none of the power, of a something that truly cares beyond a blob of text. “Lipstick on a pig,” as the saying goes.

]]> By: dnorman http://www.darcynorman.net/2009/01/27/on-the-lack-of-usability-of-rich-text-editors-in-drupal/#comment-194395 dnorman Thu, 29 Jan 2009 15:36:56 +0000 http://www.darcynorman.net/?p=2736#comment-194395 The WYSIWYG editor itself is rather trivial - any of them would work well enough for just entering text and making it purty. It's the integration with media management (write a blog post, upload an image, insert image into blog post) without needing to do strange stuff like File Attachments (and copying the URL of the uploaded file, and pasting URL into the image tag editor, etc...) without being a geek. It works, but not cleanly. Try explaining the process to someone who is overwhelmed just using a website in the first place. Something like the WordPress Upload/Insert bar shown in Steve's screenshot would go a LONG way toward making this more usable - assuming it talked properly to whatever default WYSIWYG editor is used (because there REALLY needs to be a default WYSIWYG editor - taking the "we don't ship one so you can pick the one you like best" stance is a copout, since only the most über of übergeeks would give a crap about which editor is used, and they won't be using the WYSIWYG editor anyway... it just needs to be there, and it just needs to work. end rant.) The WYSIWYG editor itself is rather trivial – any of them would work well enough for just entering text and making it purty. It’s the integration with media management (write a blog post, upload an image, insert image into blog post) without needing to do strange stuff like File Attachments (and copying the URL of the uploaded file, and pasting URL into the image tag editor, etc…) without being a geek. It works, but not cleanly. Try explaining the process to someone who is overwhelmed just using a website in the first place.

Something like the WordPress Upload/Insert bar shown in Steve’s screenshot would go a LONG way toward making this more usable – assuming it talked properly to whatever default WYSIWYG editor is used (because there REALLY needs to be a default WYSIWYG editor – taking the “we don’t ship one so you can pick the one you like best” stance is a copout, since only the most über of übergeeks would give a crap about which editor is used, and they won’t be using the WYSIWYG editor anyway… it just needs to be there, and it just needs to work. end rant.)

]]> By: steve http://www.darcynorman.net/2009/01/27/on-the-lack-of-usability-of-rich-text-editors-in-drupal/#comment-194392 steve Thu, 29 Jan 2009 14:27:42 +0000 http://www.darcynorman.net/?p=2736#comment-194392 I've actually spend a few hours the last couple nights trying to hack something together to get this working. Just to be clear, we want something that looks like this: http://www.stevekarsch.com/sites/stevekarsch.com/files/wordpress-editor.jpg in Drupal, right? The editor seems to be the (somewhat) easy part...the nice UI on the image uploading/scaling will be a little more difficult and I want to make sure I'm not duplicating the efforts of the recent media sprints. Once I have something that's even a little bit ready for prime time I'll add a module to drupal.org. I’ve actually spend a few hours the last couple nights trying to hack something together to get this working. Just to be clear, we want something that looks like this:

http://www.stevekarsch.com/sites/stevekarsch.com/files/wordpress-editor.jpg

in Drupal, right? The editor seems to be the (somewhat) easy part…the nice UI on the image uploading/scaling will be a little more difficult and I want to make sure I’m not duplicating the efforts of the recent media sprints. Once I have something that’s even a little bit ready for prime time I’ll add a module to drupal.org.

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