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	<title>Comments on: the voice of reason</title>
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	<link>http://www.darcynorman.net/2008/11/21/the-voice-of-reason/</link>
	<description>apparently much happier in person</description>
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		<title>By: Jim</title>
		<link>http://www.darcynorman.net/2008/11/21/the-voice-of-reason/#comment-194089</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Nov 2008 19:27:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.darcynorman.net/?p=2591#comment-194089</guid>
		<description>Chris Lott rules.  I&#039;ll end this there.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Chris Lott rules.  I&#8217;ll end this there.</p>
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		<title>By: Chris Lott</title>
		<link>http://www.darcynorman.net/2008/11/21/the-voice-of-reason/#comment-194087</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Lott</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Nov 2008 19:00:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.darcynorman.net/?p=2591#comment-194087</guid>
		<description>That response is definitely off... the second YOU is redundant... and shouldn&#039;t SCUM BAG be two words? :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That response is definitely off&#8230; the second YOU is redundant&#8230; and shouldn&#8217;t SCUM BAG be two words? <img src='http://www.darcynorman.net/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: dnorman</title>
		<link>http://www.darcynorman.net/2008/11/21/the-voice-of-reason/#comment-194085</link>
		<dc:creator>dnorman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Nov 2008 18:11:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.darcynorman.net/?p=2591#comment-194085</guid>
		<description>Jim, the post was not intended as a response to your email/post. Sure, that was part of the reason I&#039;ve been thinking about this, but it was nowhere even close to the only reason. I didn&#039;t name names or describe specific examples because I didn&#039;t want to criticize - especially people I love and respect.

I&#039;m definitely not trying to prescribe how to think, nor am I equating reason with intelligence - there are plenty of reasonable people that don&#039;t have 2 brain cells to rub together, as well as absolute irrational geniuses.

I guess what prompted the post is the ongoing nagging feeling that I have to act as an apologist or something, when that is not something that interests me at all. That, and another epic PTA meeting last night that almost devolved into a shouting match between fearmongering phobic parents and the rest of us...

You mentioned your post, so I&#039;ll comment on that. An Automattic company rep posted a suggestion to the WP-Edu list to offer to coordinate a collaboratively written WordPress Edu WTF? document that could be shared with suits and pointy-haired bosses to explain in their language what WordPress is, and why we care. Sure, he used some business-like language, and maybe assumed that people on the list gave 2 shits about making a business case (I certainly don&#039;t). But, instead of asking for clarification of intent, or definition of the problem, you tore into him for violating the spirit of the community (my words, not yours. paraphrasing).

I think I see where you were coming from, but the response was several orders of magnitude greater than warranted. A pause may have given you time to reword your opposition to the suggestion.

Your opposition is essential - all I&#039;m saying is that responding to &quot;so, should we write a document together?&quot; with &quot;FUCK YOU, YOU CORPORATE ASSHOLE SCUMBAG!&quot; (my paraphrasing - sorry if that wasn&#039;t the essence of what you meant, it&#039;s how I interpreted it) seems a bit counterproductive.

I&#039;m also not saying that everything needs to be reasonable, rational, measured, boring, stale, vanilla, beige. But it can&#039;t all be nuclear mushroom clouds, either.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jim, the post was not intended as a response to your email/post. Sure, that was part of the reason I&#8217;ve been thinking about this, but it was nowhere even close to the only reason. I didn&#8217;t name names or describe specific examples because I didn&#8217;t want to criticize &#8211; especially people I love and respect.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m definitely not trying to prescribe how to think, nor am I equating reason with intelligence &#8211; there are plenty of reasonable people that don&#8217;t have 2 brain cells to rub together, as well as absolute irrational geniuses.</p>
<p>I guess what prompted the post is the ongoing nagging feeling that I have to act as an apologist or something, when that is not something that interests me at all. That, and another epic PTA meeting last night that almost devolved into a shouting match between fearmongering phobic parents and the rest of us&#8230;</p>
<p>You mentioned your post, so I&#8217;ll comment on that. An Automattic company rep posted a suggestion to the WP-Edu list to offer to coordinate a collaboratively written WordPress Edu WTF? document that could be shared with suits and pointy-haired bosses to explain in their language what WordPress is, and why we care. Sure, he used some business-like language, and maybe assumed that people on the list gave 2 shits about making a business case (I certainly don&#8217;t). But, instead of asking for clarification of intent, or definition of the problem, you tore into him for violating the spirit of the community (my words, not yours. paraphrasing).</p>
<p>I think I see where you were coming from, but the response was several orders of magnitude greater than warranted. A pause may have given you time to reword your opposition to the suggestion.</p>
<p>Your opposition is essential &#8211; all I&#8217;m saying is that responding to &#8220;so, should we write a document together?&#8221; with &#8220;FUCK YOU, YOU CORPORATE ASSHOLE SCUMBAG!&#8221; (my paraphrasing &#8211; sorry if that wasn&#8217;t the essence of what you meant, it&#8217;s how I interpreted it) seems a bit counterproductive.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m also not saying that everything needs to be reasonable, rational, measured, boring, stale, vanilla, beige. But it can&#8217;t all be nuclear mushroom clouds, either.</p>
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		<title>By: Jim</title>
		<link>http://www.darcynorman.net/2008/11/21/the-voice-of-reason/#comment-194084</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Nov 2008 17:49:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.darcynorman.net/?p=2591#comment-194084</guid>
		<description>Well,

Think about the concept of reason and how huge the idea is, and then think about this post and it&#039;s specificity, despite naming. Is to question not reasonable?  But if some one questions to quickly or our of a whole series of events that frame their mindset why is that bad? Why does it need to be &quot;controlled.&quot; Why warn us of the dangers? 
While at the same time leaving the dangers of reason unquestioned? I just think this post reads like a prescription for thinking that is often equivalent to an intellectual valium.  The conflation of intelligence with reason is a dangerous one in my mind.

I may be wrong, but I am assuming that this is in response to a recent post I made and an email on the wp-edu list, which was a bit of a blow-up, and I freely acknowledge that. But I&#039;m also not too concerned about it. No one pays me to think, and my ideas are not for sale nor and I worried about alienating others or tenure or making &quot;networking.&quot; Dare I say I could endanger my online brand? :) 

I&#039;m often wrong, and freely admit that, but I&#039;m not afraid to think and question and I refuse to be held to a logic of reason and pragmatism---yet that is often the paradigm we are held to, which has centuries of momentum behind it. Why? To what end?  Civility?  Sure, I think that is important, and Americans were for the most part damn civil about the invasion of Iraq and the repeal of our personal freedoms, doesn&#039;t mean we were any the better off as a people. And I don&#039;t think my questions were attacks, but rather thinking about a space that has been sleepwalking from vendor to vendor, and feeling extremely uncomfortable about that reality. Do I communicate the wrong way?  Yeah, sure, but I think we still have that right.  Moreover, I&#039;m not yelling fire in a crowded theater, and I don&#039;t make anyone read my crap. Sure, I would have been a good man if someone had a gun to my head every minute of my life, but the Misfit misses the point that we wouldn&#039;t have had a choice otherwise, and posts like this leave very little space for choice.  There is an expected norm, and why? 

Sorry to vent, D&#039;Arcy, and you know I love you, but at the same time I hate the idea that we have to congeal around a logic and reason, that may be the death of institutions as we know them. I love it when you blow up your blog, and the absence of reason provides a space for something else, namely thought and creation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well,</p>
<p>Think about the concept of reason and how huge the idea is, and then think about this post and it&#8217;s specificity, despite naming. Is to question not reasonable?  But if some one questions to quickly or our of a whole series of events that frame their mindset why is that bad? Why does it need to be &#8220;controlled.&#8221; Why warn us of the dangers?<br />
While at the same time leaving the dangers of reason unquestioned? I just think this post reads like a prescription for thinking that is often equivalent to an intellectual valium.  The conflation of intelligence with reason is a dangerous one in my mind.</p>
<p>I may be wrong, but I am assuming that this is in response to a recent post I made and an email on the wp-edu list, which was a bit of a blow-up, and I freely acknowledge that. But I&#8217;m also not too concerned about it. No one pays me to think, and my ideas are not for sale nor and I worried about alienating others or tenure or making &#8220;networking.&#8221; Dare I say I could endanger my online brand? <img src='http://www.darcynorman.net/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />  </p>
<p>I&#8217;m often wrong, and freely admit that, but I&#8217;m not afraid to think and question and I refuse to be held to a logic of reason and pragmatism&#8212;yet that is often the paradigm we are held to, which has centuries of momentum behind it. Why? To what end?  Civility?  Sure, I think that is important, and Americans were for the most part damn civil about the invasion of Iraq and the repeal of our personal freedoms, doesn&#8217;t mean we were any the better off as a people. And I don&#8217;t think my questions were attacks, but rather thinking about a space that has been sleepwalking from vendor to vendor, and feeling extremely uncomfortable about that reality. Do I communicate the wrong way?  Yeah, sure, but I think we still have that right.  Moreover, I&#8217;m not yelling fire in a crowded theater, and I don&#8217;t make anyone read my crap. Sure, I would have been a good man if someone had a gun to my head every minute of my life, but the Misfit misses the point that we wouldn&#8217;t have had a choice otherwise, and posts like this leave very little space for choice.  There is an expected norm, and why? </p>
<p>Sorry to vent, D&#8217;Arcy, and you know I love you, but at the same time I hate the idea that we have to congeal around a logic and reason, that may be the death of institutions as we know them. I love it when you blow up your blog, and the absence of reason provides a space for something else, namely thought and creation.</p>
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		<title>By: dnorman</title>
		<link>http://www.darcynorman.net/2008/11/21/the-voice-of-reason/#comment-194083</link>
		<dc:creator>dnorman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Nov 2008 17:11:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.darcynorman.net/?p=2591#comment-194083</guid>
		<description>point taken. reason is overrated anyway. especially when it&#039;s valued so little by so many.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>point taken. reason is overrated anyway. especially when it&#8217;s valued so little by so many.</p>
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		<title>By: Jim</title>
		<link>http://www.darcynorman.net/2008/11/21/the-voice-of-reason/#comment-194082</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Nov 2008 17:06:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.darcynorman.net/?p=2591#comment-194082</guid>
		<description>Reason is normalizing, and it corrodes heated discussion and passion. Reason and pragmatism need to be fought in all their evil guises.  Reason has had a positive value for too long, we need to reclaim the valued space of the irrational and unreasonable. Capital is premised on reason, and it is sucking our soul away!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Reason is normalizing, and it corrodes heated discussion and passion. Reason and pragmatism need to be fought in all their evil guises.  Reason has had a positive value for too long, we need to reclaim the valued space of the irrational and unreasonable. Capital is premised on reason, and it is sucking our soul away!</p>
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