Comments on: Expensive Open Source Conference http://www.darcynorman.net/2006/06/28/expensive-open-source-conference/ apparently much happier in person Sat, 21 Nov 2009 05:03:04 -0700 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.6 hourly 1 By: Joshua Archer http://www.darcynorman.net/2006/06/28/expensive-open-source-conference/#comment-82046 Joshua Archer Wed, 31 Dec 1969 17:00:00 +0000 271501678#comment-82046 The main difference being that O'Reilly MUST make the conference pay for itself (and really, it's got to make them some money, the way that they've een doing after the tech bust), where Apple sees WWDC as a marketing expense, and can absorb loss. Also, the number of attendees at WWDC is MUCH HIGHER than it is at OSCON, so the economies of scale kick in.<div><br /></div><div>That being said, there's a place in the market for a cheaper OS conference. Wanna start one? :) </div> The main difference being that O'Reilly MUST make the conference pay for itself (and really, it's got to make them some money, the way that they've een doing after the tech bust), where Apple sees WWDC as a marketing expense, and can absorb loss. Also, the number of attendees at WWDC is MUCH HIGHER than it is at OSCON, so the economies of scale kick in.
That being said, there's a place in the market for a cheaper OS conference. Wanna start one? :)  
]]> By: dnorman http://www.darcynorman.net/2006/06/28/expensive-open-source-conference/#comment-82047 dnorman Wed, 31 Dec 1969 17:00:00 +0000 271501678#comment-82047 <p>Yeah - but there's profit and then there's charging 2 grand to talk about free software...</p><p>I'm sure I couldn't do a better job myself, but still... </p> Yeah – but there's profit and then there's charging 2 grand to talk about free software…

I'm sure I couldn't do a better job myself, but still… 

]]> By: King Chung Huang http://www.darcynorman.net/2006/06/28/expensive-open-source-conference/#comment-82049 King Chung Huang Wed, 31 Dec 1969 17:00:00 +0000 271501678#comment-82049 Aren't WWDC sessions 90 minutes long (75 minutes + 15 minutes buffer)? Plus, if you're a student, you can apply for a free conference pass (Apple gave out 400 per year when I was a student). I found the one week a year that I spent there during my student years to be just as valuable as the rest of the year spent in classes. Part of reason could be that a lot of the sessions are designed so that you can attend a series of them to learn progressively more about a topic. Later sessions draw on material covered in earlier sessions. And, if you switch tracks mid-way, you can always catch up on with the DVDs or online streams.<div><br /><div>That's my biggest pet peeve about some other conferences. They're usually filled with lots of concurrent disjoint sessions. If you've missed something, though luck. And even if you stay on the same "track" (OSCON appears to be grouped by technology), the individual sessions are usually standalone units that only loosly relate with one another. The lack of continuity means that I can't remember half of the sessions I went to.</div></div> Aren't WWDC sessions 90 minutes long (75 minutes + 15 minutes buffer)? Plus, if you're a student, you can apply for a free conference pass (Apple gave out 400 per year when I was a student). I found the one week a year that I spent there during my student years to be just as valuable as the rest of the year spent in classes. Part of reason could be that a lot of the sessions are designed so that you can attend a series of them to learn progressively more about a topic. Later sessions draw on material covered in earlier sessions. And, if you switch tracks mid-way, you can always catch up on with the DVDs or online streams.
That's my biggest pet peeve about some other conferences. They're usually filled with lots of concurrent disjoint sessions. If you've missed something, though luck. And even if you stay on the same "track" (OSCON appears to be grouped by technology), the individual sessions are usually standalone units that only loosly relate with one another. The lack of continuity means that I can't remember half of the sessions I went to.
]]> By: dnorman http://www.darcynorman.net/2006/06/28/expensive-open-source-conference/#comment-82050 dnorman Wed, 31 Dec 1969 17:00:00 +0000 271501678#comment-82050 <p>Josh - O'Reilly totally uses the OSCON for marketing purposes as well - the next year's worth of book topics are pulled from the conference, and they get a pretty good idea of which books are going to sell. An argument could be made that they should be subsidizing any excess cost because of that...</p><p>King - I was foggy on the duration of sessions at WWDC - I think you're right about the 75 minute length. The thing that really surprised me about the OSCON schedule was just how hectic it feels. 45 minutes per session, for most of them. With several simultaneous tracks covering topics that would be interesting to many people. Not only would it be difficult to get anything meaningful from such a short session, it would be distracting having so many different tracks vying for attention... </p> Josh – O'Reilly totally uses the OSCON for marketing purposes as well – the next year's worth of book topics are pulled from the conference, and they get a pretty good idea of which books are going to sell. An argument could be made that they should be subsidizing any excess cost because of that…

King – I was foggy on the duration of sessions at WWDC – I think you're right about the 75 minute length. The thing that really surprised me about the OSCON schedule was just how hectic it feels. 45 minutes per session, for most of them. With several simultaneous tracks covering topics that would be interesting to many people. Not only would it be difficult to get anything meaningful from such a short session, it would be distracting having so many different tracks vying for attention…

]]> By: Sami Khan http://www.darcynorman.net/2006/06/28/expensive-open-source-conference/#comment-82052 Sami Khan Wed, 31 Dec 1969 17:00:00 +0000 271501678#comment-82052 OSCON is a quite unnessarily expensive! I don't find tons of value in attending these things other than making contacts. In terms of information, most can be found online, etc. Keith Farrazi in his book, Never Eat Alone, claims the exact same thing in that conferences are good for meeting people and making contacts, education is done in your own time. If you need more contacts in the industry then it's cool. The whole point is to socialize and you can socialize at either event. So if you think you'll find people that you want to meet at OSCMS, then go there, otherwise go to <a href="http://developer.apple.com/wwdc/">WWDC</a>. Even badly planned conferences are cool if the right type of people are there.. my few cents. OSCON is a quite unnessarily expensive! I don't find tons of value in attending these things other than making contacts. In terms of information, most can be found online, etc. Keith Farrazi in his book, Never Eat Alone, claims the exact same thing in that conferences are good for meeting people and making contacts, education is done in your own time. If you need more contacts in the industry then it's cool. The whole point is to socialize and you can socialize at either event. So if you think you'll find people that you want to meet at OSCMS, then go there, otherwise go to WWDC. Even badly planned conferences are cool if the right type of people are there.. my few cents.

]]> By: Brian http://www.darcynorman.net/2006/06/28/expensive-open-source-conference/#comment-82053 Brian Wed, 31 Dec 1969 17:00:00 +0000 271501678#comment-82053 <p>This to me illustrates what has become increasingly obvious the past few years -- open source is not the domain of geeks, open info fanatics and publicly-funded developers (I recognise there is some overlap there).  It's become a big business in its own right -- with players like IBM, Sun, et al making open source a cornerstone of their operations. Once you can stock a conference with people putting everything on their expense accounts, you get revenue models like this one.  </p><p>A pro-level conference in a big mainstream venue is unbelievably expensive to put on... the costs mount like crazy.  We can only keep NV as cheap as we do by getting a good deal (internal UBC rate) on facillities, paying nobody's expenses (including the keynotes), and scrimping on extras like meals.  Last year we explored holding NV in a bigger venue like a conference centre or major hotel, and doing so would have required we jack up rates nearly tenfold in itself (once setting up a robust wireless network was factored in).<br /></p><br />That said, from what I hear, once you get past a certain threshold for attendees (say, a thousand), I hear some of these mega-conferences can turn out to be surprisingly lucrative.   This to me illustrates what has become increasingly obvious the past few years — open source is not the domain of geeks, open info fanatics and publicly-funded developers (I recognise there is some overlap there).  It's become a big business in its own right — with players like IBM, Sun, et al making open source a cornerstone of their operations. Once you can stock a conference with people putting everything on their expense accounts, you get revenue models like this one. 

A pro-level conference in a big mainstream venue is unbelievably expensive to put on… the costs mount like crazy.  We can only keep NV as cheap as we do by getting a good deal (internal UBC rate) on facillities, paying nobody's expenses (including the keynotes), and scrimping on extras like meals.  Last year we explored holding NV in a bigger venue like a conference centre or major hotel, and doing so would have required we jack up rates nearly tenfold in itself (once setting up a robust wireless network was factored in).

That said, from what I hear, once you get past a certain threshold for attendees (say, a thousand), I hear some of these mega-conferences can turn out to be surprisingly lucrative.  

]]> By: dnorman http://www.darcynorman.net/2006/06/28/expensive-open-source-conference/#comment-82055 dnorman Wed, 31 Dec 1969 17:00:00 +0000 271501678#comment-82055 <p>Bar napkin math for OSCON: 2000 attendees, roughly $1K per head. $2 million US. For a 3 day event. Tutorials are extra. </p><p>I agree with you Brian - if it's a Large Company Expense Account event, then it becomes a financial engine rather than a pure open source event.</p><p>I still think that there would be venues that are large enough to hold a large-scale open source conference on a campus. I'm pretty sure the U of C could handle it. I'm sure UBC could. If they have to be in Portland, they may have difficulty finding a campus large enough. But a larger centre would have resources available.</p><p>Also, there's nothing saying it has to be a HUGE event. Limit the number of in-person attendees, but open it up to online participation. Keep the costs to attend low enough that people can do it, and perhaps have it as a travelling show?</p><p>I think you guys (the NorthernVoice committee) have hit much closer to the mark, especially with the conjoined DrupalCon that was run alongside NV'06. That's the must-attend event for me in '07 - and if I can help with planning (albeit remotely from YYC) please let me know. </p> Bar napkin math for OSCON: 2000 attendees, roughly $1K per head. $2 million US. For a 3 day event. Tutorials are extra.

I agree with you Brian – if it's a Large Company Expense Account event, then it becomes a financial engine rather than a pure open source event.

I still think that there would be venues that are large enough to hold a large-scale open source conference on a campus. I'm pretty sure the U of C could handle it. I'm sure UBC could. If they have to be in Portland, they may have difficulty finding a campus large enough. But a larger centre would have resources available.

Also, there's nothing saying it has to be a HUGE event. Limit the number of in-person attendees, but open it up to online participation. Keep the costs to attend low enough that people can do it, and perhaps have it as a travelling show?

I think you guys (the NorthernVoice committee) have hit much closer to the mark, especially with the conjoined DrupalCon that was run alongside NV'06. That's the must-attend event for me in '07 – and if I can help with planning (albeit remotely from YYC) please let me know. 

]]>