Comments on: The Blog @ Calgary on Suburban Sprawl http://www.darcynorman.net/2006/01/16/the-blog-calgary-on-suburban-sprawl/ apparently much happier in person Sat, 21 Nov 2009 05:03:04 -0700 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.6 hourly 1 By: dnorman http://www.darcynorman.net/2006/01/16/the-blog-calgary-on-suburban-sprawl/#comment-195204 dnorman Tue, 02 Jun 2009 15:49:53 +0000 267402309#comment-195204 yeah. the difference is that now there aren't waiting lists for overpriced houses. the real estate bubble finally began to pop. hopefully we return to some semblance of sanity in this city. time for the suburban sprawl to end. yeah. the difference is that now there aren’t waiting lists for overpriced houses. the real estate bubble finally began to pop. hopefully we return to some semblance of sanity in this city. time for the suburban sprawl to end.

]]> By: Justin http://www.darcynorman.net/2006/01/16/the-blog-calgary-on-suburban-sprawl/#comment-195203 Justin Tue, 02 Jun 2009 15:39:57 +0000 267402309#comment-195203 Peggy, good video find. Definitely not like that here now. Peggy, good video find. Definitely not like that here now.

]]> By: » Sprawling Calgary » Chris Garrett’s Blog http://www.darcynorman.net/2006/01/16/the-blog-calgary-on-suburban-sprawl/#comment-80993 » Sprawling Calgary » Chris Garrett’s Blog Wed, 31 Dec 1969 17:00:00 +0000 267402309#comment-80993 [...] Both D’Arcy and Ted write about urban sprawl today. Ted posted this remarkable fact (must be, I am remarking on it after all!) Just to give you an idea of the scope of the problem, consider this oft quoted statistic: New York City, with about the same area as Calgary, has almost ten times our population. [...] [...] Both D’Arcy and Ted write about urban sprawl today. Ted posted this remarkable fact (must be, I am remarking on it after all!) Just to give you an idea of the scope of the problem, consider this oft quoted statistic: New York City, with about the same area as Calgary, has almost ten times our population. [...]

]]> By: Scott Leslie http://www.darcynorman.net/2006/01/16/the-blog-calgary-on-suburban-sprawl/#comment-80994 Scott Leslie Wed, 31 Dec 1969 17:00:00 +0000 267402309#comment-80994 Hey, way back when I first lived in Cowtown, I participated in the Go committee transit planning exercise (can't even remember it's proper name, this was like 15 years ago). Back then Calgary had only 600K people, and was already the least dense city per capita in North America. It was obvious even then that routes like Macleod Trail and Bow Trail (amongst many others) would eventually turn into parking lots if everyone kept working downtown but living in ever-expanding suburban sprawl. There were lots of good suggestions even back then; the problem has never been the inability to idenitfy the problem, or even to identify half-decent solutions. Especially in Calgary, the problem has been total lack of political will. I kid you not, it was one of the reasons we moved away; as such a new city, Calgary was designed as totally car dependant, and I never saw one iota of larger political will to do anything about it, even though 15 years ago we were already trying to tell them that they needed to promote other parts of the city as 'work centres' and start legislating developers so that each new subdivision wouldn't be built around the car and a 10 minute drive to get a litre of milk. But as long as that wind keeps blowing out of the mountains and you don't get too many of those famous brown "temperature inversions," it will take so long for the air quality there to become continuously degraded that I don't hold much hope of change. But I hope I am proved wrong. Hey, way back when I first lived in Cowtown, I participated in the Go committee transit planning exercise (can’t even remember it’s proper name, this was like 15 years ago). Back then Calgary had only 600K people, and was already the least dense city per capita in North America. It was obvious even then that routes like Macleod Trail and Bow Trail (amongst many others) would eventually turn into parking lots if everyone kept working downtown but living in ever-expanding suburban sprawl. There were lots of good suggestions even back then; the problem has never been the inability to idenitfy the problem, or even to identify half-decent solutions. Especially in Calgary, the problem has been total lack of political will. I kid you not, it was one of the reasons we moved away; as such a new city, Calgary was designed as totally car dependant, and I never saw one iota of larger political will to do anything about it, even though 15 years ago we were already trying to tell them that they needed to promote other parts of the city as ‘work centres’ and start legislating developers so that each new subdivision wouldn’t be built around the car and a 10 minute drive to get a litre of milk. But as long as that wind keeps blowing out of the mountains and you don’t get too many of those famous brown “temperature inversions,” it will take so long for the air quality there to become continuously degraded that I don’t hold much hope of change. But I hope I am proved wrong.

]]> By: D'Arcy http://www.darcynorman.net/2006/01/16/the-blog-calgary-on-suburban-sprawl/#comment-80995 D'Arcy Wed, 31 Dec 1969 17:00:00 +0000 267402309#comment-80995 Scott, I completely (and sadly) agree with you. The problem is well defined. The solution from The Administration is simple: BUILD MORE ROADS! The way to prevent suburban blight is to BUILD A RING ROAD! No critical thinking involved. No risk-taking. Bronco would be voted out (or worse) for doing anything different in The Oil Capital of Canada (and soon The World). In a way, it's even more frustrating because Calgary will likely be able to get away with maintaining this insane mindset long after the rest of the continent has been forced to adapt. We make the oil here in Alberta. Barring any oil wars from our southern neighbors *ahem* we'll be swimming in the stuff for another 50-100 years... Scott, I completely (and sadly) agree with you. The problem is well defined. The solution from The Administration is simple: BUILD MORE ROADS! The way to prevent suburban blight is to BUILD A RING ROAD! No critical thinking involved. No risk-taking. Bronco would be voted out (or worse) for doing anything different in The Oil Capital of Canada (and soon The World).

In a way, it’s even more frustrating because Calgary will likely be able to get away with maintaining this insane mindset long after the rest of the continent has been forced to adapt. We make the oil here in Alberta. Barring any oil wars from our southern neighbors *ahem* we’ll be swimming in the stuff for another 50-100 years…

]]> By: teddy http://www.darcynorman.net/2006/01/16/the-blog-calgary-on-suburban-sprawl/#comment-80996 teddy Wed, 31 Dec 1969 17:00:00 +0000 267402309#comment-80996 I remember GO Plan when I got here, 10 years ago. But D'arcy, to be fair, the city is progressing with LRT expansion and such. I think they have to over build the public transit corridors with the philosphy of "if you build it..." If you happen to live on a good lline (like you or me) then transit (we call it "The Better Way, in To) works. But try to get from one corner to another... man. I know my son tried to explain it - apparatnyl our routes are very logical, and designed to bring you to transit corridors. It's hard for me to visualize. ANd to give you an idea of how TO works... my mom lives about 10 km from the downtown. One bus and one subway ride brings you to Bloor-Yonge. If you catch the bus just right (every fifteen minutes like clockwork) it took 22 mins to get from the edge of Scarborough to the DT Pretty impressive I thought. I remember GO Plan when I got here, 10 years ago.

But D’arcy, to be fair, the city is progressing with LRT expansion and such. I think they have to over build the public transit corridors with the philosphy of “if you build it…”

If you happen to live on a good lline (like you or me) then transit (we call it “The Better Way, in To) works. But try to get from one corner to another… man. I know my son tried to explain it – apparatnyl our routes are very logical, and designed to bring you to transit corridors. It’s hard for me to visualize.

ANd to give you an idea of how TO works… my mom lives about 10 km from the downtown. One bus and one subway ride brings you to Bloor-Yonge. If you catch the bus just right (every fifteen minutes like clockwork) it took 22 mins to get from the edge of Scarborough to the DT Pretty impressive I thought.

]]> By: D'Arcy http://www.darcynorman.net/2006/01/16/the-blog-calgary-on-suburban-sprawl/#comment-80997 D'Arcy Wed, 31 Dec 1969 17:00:00 +0000 267402309#comment-80997 Calgary's model of public transportation is almost 100% designed around a Trunk and Feeder layout that resembles a circulatory system. If you don't start on an artery, and hope to wind up somewhere on the trunk, you need to budget over an hour each way in travel time. Meaning a quick trip to a dentist or doctor can essentially take up a whole day if you don't have a car. Not exactly conducive to reducing the mass of metal being transported around our shiny new freeways. TO, or Montreal, or San Francisco, all have systems that work MUCH better for regular use by real people. Calgary is built out to support commuting from the suburbs to downtown, and then back home. Calgary’s model of public transportation is almost 100% designed around a Trunk and Feeder layout that resembles a circulatory system. If you don’t start on an artery, and hope to wind up somewhere on the trunk, you need to budget over an hour each way in travel time. Meaning a quick trip to a dentist or doctor can essentially take up a whole day if you don’t have a car. Not exactly conducive to reducing the mass of metal being transported around our shiny new freeways.

TO, or Montreal, or San Francisco, all have systems that work MUCH better for regular use by real people. Calgary is built out to support commuting from the suburbs to downtown, and then back home.

]]> By: D'Arcy http://www.darcynorman.net/2006/01/16/the-blog-calgary-on-suburban-sprawl/#comment-80998 D'Arcy Wed, 31 Dec 1969 17:00:00 +0000 267402309#comment-80998 Yeah. Boy did I screw up the comparison between Calgary and Orange County. Calgary's much smaller, and actually has a higher pop. density (according to Wikipedia, anyway). I'm not sure where I got that fact from - I thought it was from Wikipedia, but I can't remember. Hopefully the last time I use an uncited "fact" in a post. Sorry about that. I guess, on the upside, the post still works without that claim, so it's not a fatal blow to anything besides my ego :-) I'm going to leave the comparison in (but struck out) as a reminder to myself to check facts... Yeah. Boy did I screw up the comparison between Calgary and Orange County. Calgary’s much smaller, and actually has a higher pop. density (according to Wikipedia, anyway). I’m not sure where I got that fact from – I thought it was from Wikipedia, but I can’t remember. Hopefully the last time I use an uncited “fact” in a post. Sorry about that. I guess, on the upside, the post still works without that claim, so it’s not a fatal blow to anything besides my ego :-) I’m going to leave the comparison in (but struck out) as a reminder to myself to check facts…

]]> By: D'Arcy http://www.darcynorman.net/2006/01/16/the-blog-calgary-on-suburban-sprawl/#comment-80999 D'Arcy Wed, 31 Dec 1969 17:00:00 +0000 267402309#comment-80999 Could be - I believe I read that comparison on Wikipedia. I'll do some more research and correct it ASAP. But, it's a minor part of the overall point, that Calgary is waaaay more sprawly than in needs to be... Could be – I believe I read that comparison on Wikipedia. I’ll do some more research and correct it ASAP. But, it’s a minor part of the overall point, that Calgary is waaaay more sprawly than in needs to be…

]]> By: Mark http://www.darcynorman.net/2006/01/16/the-blog-calgary-on-suburban-sprawl/#comment-81000 Mark Wed, 31 Dec 1969 17:00:00 +0000 267402309#comment-81000 Your stats on Calgary's size versus Orange Country are WAY off.... Your stats on Calgary’s size versus Orange Country are WAY off….

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